Collaboration Matters!

Stuart,

This post sums up perfectly my concerns with the site as well. As you say there is no reason to think there is anything which isn't above board, but I'd be happier if this were run by a group which could not even be accused of a conflict of interest.

My other (minor) concern is that the site really doesn't look great, with all of the kerfufle this week about Notes / Domino app dev, I'm not sure that a public site like this does the platform a favour when we're trying to persuade people that Domino apps can be good looking and "modern".

Matt

Thanks Matt, a very fair point. It could certainly look more Web2.0, and serif fonts are a serious no-no.

The bit that really stands out for me is the commitment to providing a quote within one business day: have all the vendors signed up to that, or is this some kind of "unlilateral SLA"??

Before there was next to nothing, now there is at least something that can grow. And IBM can still build one or others can form a not for profit organization and build a Web 2.0 app store.

People most talk about Apple and iTunes but imho the truth is that most app stores fail.

there is a catalog by IBM, is here: https://greenhouse.lotus.com/catalog/

as dominopoint, the italian lotus community, we're building a solutions catalog too (community managed), now in closed beta for the italians BP. We'll open to the english language asap (like two weeks from now). not that we'd like to duplicate things, but we were already working on it when notesappstore come out, and we've been aware of lotus catalog only the other day, from the infamous ed brill post about the developers

Based on prior practices, I am NOT convinced in the least that the wall between Mayflower as a vendor and Mayflower as the group that runs the site will be maintained. In the past, that wall has been non-existent. { Link }

First, I would like to congratulate Mayflower for their effort. Anything that helps expose Lotus Notes solutions has to be a good thing. But what has troubled me about the initiative is the use of the term "App Store". It is not an app store but an app catalog.

I am desperately keen to find an App store as a way to sell software I have been writing. Unfortunately this initiative does not help me at all. IBM would be the ideal host for such a service. I have even asked Ed Brill about it as a potential asset for the Lotus Notes product. He was kind enough to reply and confirm that it is on their radar. Of course we all know that could mean "it will take years" given the speed at which things take just for each of their lawyers to review such a project!

My suggestion. Lets focus our energies what on we can do as a community to make a true app store a reality. I will donate some of my time to make that happen. But I write code, I am not a person that can start/finish an initiative like this. Surely if the community wants one badly enough we can organize, execute, and then share in the joy of its success (or have I just lowered my IQ by 50 points!).

1) Fully support the appstore concept

2) The quote feature allows Maysoft to collect info from prospects. Frank confirmed this in a Skype chat with me.

3) Asked Frank to have the Quote feature removed for the Elguji IdeaJam product as he/Maysoft is not an authorized reseller of our products.

4) Again, love the concept but, in this case not the execution.

Bruce

Everyone was asking for an NotesAppStore and nobody exept Mayflower grab this opportunity. So congrat to Mayflower on this part.

Yes, like others I don't really like the look of it, even if it is well done in the backend. We need something more modern to grab attention to what Lotus Notes/Domino now looks like.

BUT, did Apple ask their FanBoy community to create "THE" AppStore? No they didn't.

Again, IBM\Lotus should have took this opportunity (even more after seeing Apple liscencing Microsoft Exchange ActiveSync technologies for the iOS) and put their design team to bring something at least as par with "THE" AppStore.

So what do we do now? We could ask Ed!

- Pierre

It is amazing how easy it is to be critical. I read all the posts in Sept. 2009 and no one did anything. So I have done something. All the vendors (except Bruce) have applauded the effort and appreciate someone trying to help them out.

Are there issues to work out? Sure.

Stuart, do I want a steeting committee? Are you volunteering?

Can IBM help? Ed Brill, do you want to provide IBM support / staff / developers / $$$?

Is it a store? As much as my hot tub store. I ordered a hottub yesterday at a "store". He did not have one that I could put in my car. He made a quote, I accepted, and it arrives in 6 weeks. I still call his brick walls without a hottub a store.

So, my email address is frank@maysoft.com for all who want to help out, volunteer time and effort, join the (new) steering committee, give more advice. But if you offer advice, please offer help in implementing it, too.

All of the SpamSentinel reviews are from real customers. All have left their company names, and their real names. We have the most because we started first.

Other vendors, like Extracomm, are catching up fast. I even saw some for Elguji today.

Any reviews that do not have a name and a company or are suspicious are removed (see terms of service).

I have already removed about 10 reviews.

@10 - Frank

Not true Frank. I fully support the concept of the NotesAppStore - I DO NOT however support the recently added quote feature that allows Maysoft to collect requests for quotes for prospective Elguji customers. You told me that Maysoft does in fact store this information.

Again - Elguji supports and applauds your fine efforts.

Bruce

I'm not going to weigh on the Maysoft catalog. It certainly isn't the first of Notes applications, but it does seem to get closer to an AppStore than most.

I am curious whether people, such as Bruce, who worry about Maysoft having access to their quotes would feel more comfortable with IBM having access to their quotes. After all, IBM does already have an application catalog. If it were made more like Maysoft's, with a Request a Quote feature, would you trust them with access to your potential customers? Just curious. (Obviously, an idea would be a secure system with information that IBM couldn't access either, but let's assume the same level of privacy that Maysoft offers.)

Look, I have spoken a few times with Frank and thinks that his concept makes sense.

It is in a way, Lotus's primary role to promote the Lotus Brand but it should be ISVs 's role to promote our products and services. If Lotus can help, fine and they definitely sometimes do, but we should not ask Lotus to do something which is not their primary objectives.

Frank has started the Apps Store himself. I understand that he is adding features which have been requested such as, for example, making it more of a store with the quotes features. He is also making it multi channels by adding a business partner section so that it maps with the Lotus ecosystem. He is developing the store himself but has discussed on features by speaking to various people like me and has updated his site accordingly.

I can also confirm that Frank also wants to set up an independant steering group to review the features and ensure that the site has the required independance and has asked me to join.

Do remember that he is also doing this on his own, ie while running his company which we all know takes time.

So basically, there may be elements which are still signs of work in progress, but I think that we should support his initiative.

As of 11am PST all three of our social software applications are now listed in the NotesAppStore.

@15 Bruce, thanks for deciding to leave the quote feature on after all.

@14 Antoine, yes, we need to have an ISV voice because IBM is not responsible to market our products, we are. The resellers of ISV products are sometimes IBM BPs, sometimes not, so they don't fit neatly in IBM websites, but I am happy to have listed all of mine:

{ Link }

My goal all along was to achieve this: "Connect buyers with sellers". It's that simple. (and it can be a little complicated in implementation, as I have learned today).

...but does anyone actually use it? If you were looking for a Notes product, you'd probably start with a look at OpenNTF to see if there was something readily available. You'd also do a google/yahoo search to see if you could find some commercial products, but the results there are dependant on your search string, SEO etc, so you'd probably miss some.

What Frank has done is allow all vendors, free of charge, to store their product info in one place, and so offer easy information & comparisons to the customer. The customer doesn't have to choose Maysofts products, and Maysoft doesn't prevent it's competitors from joining.

So the concept is great. And like all new sites, the functionality & UI will develop as volumes increase and limitations become apparent. The Steering Committee idea is excellent, and there should also be a development team comprised of vendors willing to donate time to improve it. Frank plse count me in.

I had been meaning to comment, so imagine my surprise when "Peter Smith" had already commented @17!

Welcome, fellow holder of the world's finest name.

When there were two of us. Sniff.

*hug*

boohoohoo

While I have some concerns current implementations of the Notes App Store and the IBM Software catalog I am pleased to see these venues emerge. I recently wrote to Frank to share that I am very encouraged and excited to see this initiative with Notes App Sore and I applaud Frank for investing his own time and money to create the site and for working to promote it. That said, I do not think the burden and responsibility of operating such an endeavor should fall on one individual. Perhaps from this discussion ideas will emerge to bring this to the next level of function and visibility so that it will benefit all involved.

With respect to the IBM catalog that some have mentioned, we were one of the first applications to be featured in it and Mike Masterson even featured our catalog entry at Lotusphere. Since then, we have received a 5 star rating by 54 people and 98 downloads. This is a tiny fraction of the activity we see on our own site, which leads me to the next point: Promotion. IBM created the catalog but I'm honestly unaware of how it is promoted at this time. The Notes App Store appears to take the model of encouraging ISVs with listed products to help promote the catalog to their customers. I think this is a clever no-cost way to help spread the word and once some of the issues that have been raised here are addressed, I could possibly see us adding a link to the IBM catalog, the Notes App Store, or even both.

I have experience configuring Lotus Applicatons for self serve from purchase to download to install to upgrades. If there's interest, I could blog or podcast to share this experience with other ISVs that want to do the same. Great discussion.

you crashed our big moment, man!

First off, Peter and Peter, get a room guys!

More importantly, thanks to all for contributing to the discussion here, particularly Frank Paolino. I know it's hard to have your work criticised in public, and I applaud you for the way you have conducted yourself in this thread.

As I hope I made clear in the original post - I am not anti-NotesAppStore, just against how it works at present. I still stand by my comments that it needs to have a board/steering committee that is fully independent of any one-vendor, and also that IBM needs to back the venture, not least by looking at ways to make ISV solutions on Notes/Domino easier to purchase and consume. I also believe that none of the application catalogs are anywhere near ready for use just now, not least the Greenhouse-based IBM Solutions Catalog.

However, I am really encouraged by the debate that's been started and by some of the commitments that Frank has made. Lets see where they lead to...

@24 Stuart - You are invited to sit on the steeting committee, whose members now include Bruce Elgort (Elguji), Antoine Leboyer (GSX) John Stockbridge(Brookstone) Peter Smith (Ionet)

Ryan Hosford (Extracomm)

@22 Eric, the mutual link to have ISVs promote the NotesAppStore is a clever idea. In fact, it is the only cost required to be listed. As for cost, this site to be free for all participating ISVs and resellers. This is the best way to promote independence. Earning revenue will cause the same problem other sites have: Giving more attention to whomever pays them the most money.

I built this site to help all vendors of Lotus Notes Apps to have more visibility in the world and to fight back against Google Apps and other substitutes to Lotus Notes Apps.

In the NotesAppStore model, a product get the attention its customers think it deserves. Products are sorted based on the number and rating of Reviews.

Popular products, based solely on customer reviews, bubble to the top.

On that note, I am encouraging all ISVs to send their customers to the site and create a review. This would be a big help in informing potential buyers about a product and getting noticed by Google crawlers (they love fresh content).

Prospective customers like to know what others users are thinking. Listen to Aaron Goldberg:

"The biggest thing you want to do online is create a buzz about your products or services. You want others to talk about what you are doing, how you treated them, and about where they purchased their product or service. This is referred to as “going viral”. If you find that others are talking about your business without you having to force them into a conversation, you will likely find your traffic growing substantially, and in return, more conversions into sales. This is the overall goal, and it can be jumpstarted by positive reviews about your business."

Source: { Link }

NotesAppStore reviews get noticed. In just one month, our reviews are near the top of the Google natural results. I have been using SpamSentinel as a "model" of how to use the NotesAppStore site. Click this link to see how some of the SpamSentinel 15 reviews are #2, 3 or 4 on Google natural search results:

{ Link }

Every vendor has customers who love their product, and if they "share" the love, potential buyers will see it via Google. And we may have a fighting change against Google apps....

As this page is becoming the unofficial blog of the NotesAppStore, I wanted to mention I have added the capability to add ISV resellers. These consultancies (generally) are two degrees of separation from IBM (IBM -> ISV -> Reseller) but are important to the ecosystem, especially from the ISV viewpoint. More than half of SpamSentinel sales comes through its reseller channels. Sales at Extracomm, for example, are 100% driven by resellers.

Finding a reseller takes a lot of googling. I hope I have begun to create a place they can be easily found.

Blog posting:

{ Link }